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Ep. 459 Fat Loss Myths in Middle Age & Aging Optimally with Natalie Jill

  • Team Cynthia
  • 13 hours ago
  • 38 min read

Today, I am delighted to reconnect with my friend and colleague, Natalie Jill, the founder of Natalie Jill Fitness and Midlife Conversations. 


In our insightful discussion today, we tackle some of the biggest misconceptions surrounding fat loss in middle age. We dive into the power of mindset shifts, the importance of breaking free from limiting beliefs and investigating and understanding your body, and explain the role of gut health and the impact of toxins. Natalie also shares her experience with breast implant illness, highlighting the need for honesty and authenticity, and opens up about what she does to age optimally in her early 50s. 


This conversation with Natalie is invaluable, and I truly appreciate her honesty and transparency.


IN THIS EPISODE YOU WILL LEARN:

  • The challenges of weight loss in middle age

  • How feeling she was fraud after gaining weight in middle age led Natalie to re-evaluate her approach to health and fitness.

  • The importance of remaining open-minded about any potential drivers of health issues

  • How Natalie came to discover that toxins and hormones were affecting her health

  • How her health improved significantly after Natalie had her breast implants removed 

  • The emotional and physical challenges of having breast implants removed

  • The importance of strength training and progressive overload for maintaining muscle mass and bone health 

  • Natalie shares her approach to age optimization.

  • Why being kind to yourself, recognizing your natural rhythms, managing  stress, and finding ways to relax are essential

 

“My number one biohack in the morning would be my red light. I do it every morning for 12 minutes.”


-Natalie Jill

 

Connect with Cynthia Thurlow  


Connect with Natalie Jill


Transcript:

Cynthia Thurlow: [00:00:02] Welcome to Everyday Wellness Podcast. I'm your host, Nurse Practitioner Cynthia Thurlow. This podcast is designed to educate, empower and inspire you to achieve your health and wellness goals. My goal and intent is to provide you with the best content and conversations from leaders in the health and wellness industry each week and impact over a million lives. 


[00:00:29] Today, I had the honor of reconnecting with friend and colleague Natalie Jill. She is the founder of Natalie Jill Fitness and Midlife Conversations. 


[00:00:38] Today, we spoke about some of the biggest misconceptions about fat loss in middle age and the importance of a mindset shift and not succumbing to limiting beliefs, why it's so important to become a personal detective, the role of gut health and the impact of toxins, her experience with breast implant illness and why telling the truth and being authentic is so necessary, and what she's doing to age optimally in her early 50s. This is an invaluable conversation. I love Natalie Jill's authenticity and her transparency.


[00:01:17] So, I think for us today, I was looking at your Instagram and getting this gestalt. And one of the things I really value about you is your transparency on social media. Because I think a lot of people, myself included, I try to be as transparent as I'm comfortable with, but there's so much judgment around women and I feel like the men don't care. There are many women who are super supportive and then there's this undercurrent, comments, perspectives that are just really negative. And I'm like, “If you don't like what someone's doing, just move on.” 


Natalie Jill: [00:01:47] Totally. Yeah.


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:01:48] Why would you vomit all over someone's account? 


Natalie Jill: [00:01:51] Yeah. I mean, honestly, I'm here to serve your audience. So, whatever you think is going to be most beneficial or interesting, I'm not attached to anything. If you want to talk about that or the explanation or whatever, I'm open. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:02:00] Oh, I've got it all down. I've got everything, like fat loss, all the things that I think about, around you. Things that I think from my perspective, when you first came on the radar for me personally, and I think I've told you this, I did one of your programs 15 years ago. 


Natalie Jill: [00:02:16] We didn't know that. Okay. Wow. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:02:17] And so, I remember I would go to the gym and I'd print everything out and that was the first time I went gluten free.


Natalie Jill: [00:02:23] Oh wow.


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:02:24] I was like--[crosstalk] 


Natalie Jill: [00:02:25] I went over this, you prescribed me-- [crosstalk]


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:02:25] Yes. 


Natalie Jill: [00:02:26] Okay. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:02:26] Yes, yes. [laughs] 


Natalie Jill: [00:02:27] That's so funny. That's so long. I was like, “Yeah, it was definitely 15 years ago, maybe longer.” 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:02:32] But you were the person that initially got me interested in going gluten free and put all of my autoimmune stuff into remission.


Natalie Jill: [00:02:38] I love that. I didn't know that. Yeah. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:02:40] Yeah. So, I always say, “I think I want to start from a place of gratitude.” I'm so grateful for your work because- 


Natalie Jill: [00:02:46] That’s amazing.


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:02:47] -it definitely for me was what got me introduced to you as an individual and then interested in your platform and then your brand just like all of us, we evolve. You know, where we start at is probably not the position that we're in and speaking to, but when you are someone that has been looked up to for fat loss and fitness for such a long period of time. From your perspective, what are some of the biggest misconceptions about fat loss in middle age?


Natalie Jill: [00:03:15] Oh, my gosh. First of all, I had no idea that you had been following me that long or that you had purchased that program from so many years ago. [laughter] And I just think it's so funny. And as I'm listening to you, honestly, I think the reason I have evolved and shared so many things is I found a way to take my ADHD, which was like, oversharing. I was an oversharing personality. Whatever I was walking through, I'd want to talk about. I turned that into a business accidentally. So, when people ask me, “How did you evolve your brand or how did you go from this to that?” I'm just living my life. I'm just being me and I've learned young and early to be authentic and to share what I'm walking through in a place of power. 


[00:03:58] So, what I mean by that is a lot of people overshare and they share in a victim mindset, “What was me? This is wrong.” I've never done that. I share from, this is what I'm walking through. This is what I figured out. Some of you might relate to this. And let's talk about that. So many women that have been with me over the years kind of came in like you did. Initially, they found me for one thing. Maybe they just had kids or they just found out they had an autoimmune or something was relatable. And then years later they're like, “Wait a minute, we've aged together and I re-found you. And now you're talking about these midlife topics or fat loss now.” So, it was never a grand plan. It was never, I'm going to start here and I'm going to go here and then go here. I'm just sharing what I'm walking through. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:04:37] Well, and I think it makes you so relatable. Someone was saying to me the other day when I initially started following you, you were talking about intermittent fasting and now you're really shifted and really serving. I mean, I always have, but women in perimenopause and menopause, I was like, if I do nothing else, it's helping make information accessible so that people can make good decisions for themselves or just advocate for themselves. Because let's be clear our generation is in a position where we are going to navigate the aging process differently than our mother's generation. 


Natalie Jill: [00:05:09] So true.


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:05:09] Our mother's generation was post Women's Health Initiative and many of them navigated menopause without hormones. And now we're seeing a lot of the side effects going without hormones for such a long period of time. And so, when I think about one of the greatest challenges, almost without question, weight loss resistance, fat loss in middle age. Why is it so complicated? Why do you think that it is so complicated for us? Because maybe what worked at 40 or 38 doesn't work now. And people get frustrated. 


Natalie Jill: [00:05:43] Totally.


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:05:44] They're so hard on themselves. And they look at the one bikini competitor that's like 54, who's got 7% body fat and that's the unicorn. That's what many of us need to understand is that that is an outlier. That is not the average normal woman that's navigating this middle-aged journey. 


Natalie Jill: [00:06:02] Yeah, that's a big question. And I have a lot of different theories around that. But I'm going to start with the first thing that I'll tell women that say that question to me. They say, “Why is it so hard? What has changed? Why is it so difficult now?” What I say to them is it doesn't have to be, but if you've decided it's going to be hard and it's crazy and it's downhill and it's this, it will be. So, number one is-- and this is just going to be a mindset thing, but it's so critical we have to make a decision that it's possible for us. The second we say I'm too old or it's my genetics or my parents or this or my doctor said, we have shut down possibility to get to another level. 


[00:06:38] And if we believe that that it's too late, we're too old, our genetics, whatever, we will create that in our lives. So, the very first thing is we have to literally make a decision that we are going to have a different outcome, we're going to have a different result. Now, this is something I've taught for years and years and years. But even myself two years ago, I got very backtracked on this. In fact, two years ago, I'm 53 now, as we're talking. But two years ago, specifically, I stopped my entire business. I put it on pause because I felt like a fake and a fraud. Why? Because all of a sudden, I gained a lot of weight. I mean, to anyone, you wouldn't have noticed, probably on me, you would have said, “Oh, she's fine.” 


[00:07:15] But to me, the girl that had abs, that was doing pull ups on my balcony and people were following me for that, that was not me anymore. I was getting thicker in the middle, I was puffy, I was inflamed, I had hormones all over the place. I didn't feel good. So, I felt phony talking about fat loss and my products and my programs and I started believing maybe everyone else was right, maybe we just got older, maybe it's too late, maybe my genetics are catching up with me. Maybe I have all the things my mom had. I started believing that. So, I fell into that. And it wasn't until I literally had to wake myself up and say, “Wait a minute,” you are doing the opposite of what you taught. I had to go back and make a decision. 


[00:07:56] And I had to say, “Nope, this is not my reality. I'm going to fix this.” And in fact, Cynthia, you and I spoke. I remember our conversation. I was doing my summit, this is two years ago, and I just made this decision. I was pausing my programs and part of why I did this summit about midlife conversations is I wanted to deep dive and understand. And we had to talk about blood sugar. I interviewed you about blood sugar, and I told you on that interview, my blood sugar is out of control. I don't know what's going on with me. We literally talked about it. We walked down what we could do, A1c, all the things, we talked about it. And it was an interruption that doing those summit interviews where I realized I have to decide I'm having a different reality. 


[00:08:37] Laura Frontiero, who you both know, interrupted me and said, “Do you know blood sugar could also be gut health?” And I started going down this whole process of what I call now, which is part two to your question, being a health detective. So, we have to, number one, decide we want something different. And number two, we have to be open minded to being a health detective and saying maybe it's not just hormones, maybe it's not just getting older, maybe it's not my genetics. What else could it be? I was stuck on it's aging, it's my genetics, maybe it's type 2 diabetes, it's hormone replacement. What I was missing was what if it's my gut? What if it's my thyroid? What if it's breast implants that I had? It was this whole detective piece. 


[00:09:24] So, to answer your question, I don't want to ramble on too long and go off a different tangent. But number one is deciding and number two is we've got to get very curious as to why it's changing for us. And it could be very unique for each of us. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:09:37] Yeah, it's interesting, the limiting beliefs around the natural process of aging. I think men do not spend hours of their day or week worrying about this the way women do. And I think some of it's societal pressure, I think that we put a lot of pressure on ourselves. And I'm not being judgmental. My 55-year-old husband does not worry about his skincare regimen, wrinkle. [Natalie laughs] If he has a little bit of fluff somewhere in his body, he just goes about and fixes whatever he wants to. If he needs to dial back in on his chips and his alcohol or he needs to do a little bit more HIIT training, he doesn't even miss a beat, but I think that there's so much societal programming around the shoulds. 


Natalie Jill: [00:10:23] Yeah. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:10:24] And I think in many ways that mindset shift is so incredibly powerful. I would imagine that there are books or there are people you follow that you make that investment in your mindset. Do you feel like there are books that you've read in the past two years or past several years that have allowed you to evolve from that place of, I don't want to say that place of lack, because I can't imagine that you would ever be there. But that acceptance, not accepting where you are in time and space. 


Natalie Jill: [00:10:55] So, I would say I'm a personal development junkie. So, I think I've always surrounded myself with that. I think we tend to, when we don't feel good ourselves, we dismiss a lot of it. So, I can't think of it like it was this particular book or this particular coach. But I will say I believed a lot of the stuff that I'm sharing right now. And then when I didn't feel good in my body, I dismissed it and I said, “You know what? That stuff is not true. It's wrong.” I questioned everything I had taught for years. And so, until I literally had to interrupt myself and dive back in and go, wait a minute, let me start at ground one. What's my decision? My decision is I don't want to feel this way. My decision is I can be in better shape in my 50s than I was before. 


[00:11:35] My decision is I don't have to settle for this. My decision is maybe it's not just this thing doesn't have to be my reality. So, I decided that first and I started relistening to stuff. But it's not just one, I can't say it was like this author or this person. It was a combination of surrounding myself with the right information. And when I said being a health detective, I had to get very curious. I was listening to a lot of your podcasts I just started being an open blank slate because it sometimes in midlife we say we should know it. We already know it. I don't need to. I had to interrupt that and go, well, maybe I don't know it all. 


[00:12:14] So what? Maybe I-- I thought gut health and parasites was stupid. I was like, “What? that is dumb.” [Cynthia laughs] I also thought people were crazy talking that breast implants could make us sick. I just dismissed it all. But when I said, “I'm going to truly decide and be a health detective, and I put my student hat back on and went back in, not just personal development, but really understanding what's going on with my gut. What's going on there? What about toxic load? What about all the toxins that are around us? Could this be a contributing factor?” And I got to tell you, I just texted, Laura the other day and I said, “Wow. I kept a journal of notes of my weight and what was going on with me.” 


[00:12:51] I'm down 19 pounds since that conversation two years ago, 19 pounds without changing my diet, without changing my workouts, literally from changing my belief set and then becoming a detective and going down those paths and cleaning up that stuff. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:13:07] Walk us through what that path looked like, because I know at the end of that path was a big surgery, which I do want to talk about, because we have not talked about breast implant illness. What were some of the first things you and Laura started doing together that you felt like were moving the needle, you were feeling physically better.


Natalie Jill: [00:13:26] Totally.


Cynthia Thurlow: But kind of walk us through what that was like. 


Natalie Jill: [00:13:30] So the first thing was I didn't understand gut health. I didn't understand how important is. And I know you talk about this a lot too. It's critical. I thought when someone said leaky gut, I would have to have felt bloated or I was like, “I eat healthy. What do you mean? I eat unprocessed food.” I didn't understand. There's a whole situation there from years of antibiotics as a kid, years of surgery. It's like all this stuff compounding was affecting my gut. So, Laura opened me up to that conversation first. So, number one was I had to understand it. And there's not one way to do that. There's not one test or one thing. It's just starting to learn and it could be unique for different people. 


[00:14:05] I'm sure you have your own way that you do this, Cynthia, but it's understanding and being open minded to gut health. That's number one. After I started clearing that and I started cleaning up, even going deeper on my food where I understood unprocessed food, but now adding fermented foods and really understanding this. I remember I released like the first 5 pounds. And I started getting excited that there's kind of a hope here. And Laura said to me this question that really changed my life. She said, “Something else is feeding the bad gut bacteria. And I don't know what that is, but something else is feeding it.” And when she said that to me, I started getting very curious about toxins. Now somebody listening could roll their eyes and say, “Well, there's toxins everywhere. Everything's toxic.” Yes, it's true. 


[00:14:46] However, we can lower our toxic load and we can get our bodies better at getting rid of toxins when we're eating or exposed to them or around them. And I believe that for years and years, you're in your teens, your 20s, your 30s, your body's more efficient there. The more this is compounding and your body is not efficient. This is creating a lot of our problems where we're just throwing it into the hormone bucket. It could be so much more than that. So, I started being open minded to that. And that's when I learned that I was living in a house with black mold. I didn't even know. So, that was one, okay, black mold, huge toxin. I started thinking about my amalgam fillings in my mouth. Wow. It didn't think about that. I started looking at skincare products, cleaning supplies.


[00:15:27] I realized like how much. And I thought, I can't clean up all of it, but where can I lower? Where can I lessen? And then the big one that I didn't want to look at was breast implants because I was like, “I don't have BII. These people are crazy. That's stupid. What? I had breast implants for 33 years. Five sets, five sets for 33 years. So, I didn't think that those were an issue at all. But because my journey started to change, I started to feel better. My blood sugar regulated by the way, which who would have thought that's connected to my gut? I'm thinking I have to just be strict keto and it was my gut, so started to change. 


[00:16:03] I went and got a breast mammogram at the time because I had maxed out. I remember I maxed out my insurance figuring out the blood sugar thing. So, I was like, “I'm just going to do all my tests.” And when I had the mammogram, they said I had a rupture. Now I had the gummy bear implants that are not supposed to rupture. So, I was like, “What? That's not accurate. That can't be true.” So, then I went and did a breast MRI. I did a breast ultrasound and all of it showed I had a very, very bad rupture gummy bear kind. So, it looked like a melted implant. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:16:32] Wow. 


Natalie Jill: [00:16:32] So, I still wasn't resonating that could be causing an issue. I said, I'm going to go replace them and I went consult after consult. Every surgeon told me that I would hate it if I just took them out, that you need to replace them. Until I met Dr. Ricky Brown in Scottsdale who said to me, “You've had a lot of surgeries. I think you should take them out, let your body heal. Let's see what happens. If you want them back in, we can put them back in.” Took them out. And I swear my whole life changed. It was wild, Cynthia. I had no idea how much that massive toxin in my body had been contributing to so many things. How I felt, how I moved, everything. 


[00:17:13] I believe that was what was feeding my gut and what's created the compound effect of everything. I think so now.


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:17:19] Yeah. I mean, it makes so much sense. And one thing about the book that I'm hopefully, fingers crossed, I'm submitting in the next week, my whole manuscript. When you look at what's changing in our gut microbiome in perimenopause and menopause, it might have been the perfect storm. Maybe prior to that, you were doing fine. But I do think the changes that are going on with immune function, the gut microbiome, the way we process not just hormones, but every little thing that you can imagine, bone health, everything, is impacted by these changes. I find it so interesting because mold is huge. About 25% of us are more sensitive to mycotoxins and mold. You were living in California then, right? 


Natalie Jill: [00:18:00] Yep. And I have similar to. I listen to your episode on DNA. I have that similar marker as you where we don't detox as well. So, our body holds on to those things. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:18:07] Yeah. It's like, okay, what are the 15 extra things I have to do because of my genetics? And then did you have your amalgam fillings removed? 


Natalie Jill: [00:18:16] Yes, I did. So, this is what's interesting. So, first, back to the implants for a minute. I have this theory. This is bizarre, but I had five sets of implants over 33 years. And my first four sets, I kept getting capsular contracture. And that's when you get a hardening of scar tissue around it. And that's why I had them replaced so many times. But when I would get that. I believe now that your body is protecting you from the implant when you get a capsular contracture. And that's why I didn't feel any of the problems or gain the weight or any of the stuff. I think what happened was I had gone for the fifth surgery, a doctor that specialized in getting rid of that. 


[00:18:48] She took them out from under the muscle, she cleaned it out, she did a new capsule, she put them over the muscle, and she basically forced it so I would never get capsular contracture again. Okay, well, I think that's where the problem started, honestly. I think that's because now I have this silicone and my body's not protecting. I think that's what started it. So, now I'm overloading my system. And my liver number showed this for years. I had high elevated liver, but I never figured out what it was. Now I know. 


[00:19:15] I overload with that. Then you add the mercury from the fillings, you add the mold, you add skin, you start adding, adding, adding, adding. And now I'm thinking, “Oh, I just need to tweak my hormones. I just need to work out harder.” All this extra stuff is just making it worse. It's not helping. So, yes, removing that and also getting committed. I removed my mercury fillings. I did all that. I did full detox protocols with everything. And when I did that, everything I knew then about fat loss—healthy, started working again. It was like, wow, the veil was lifted. So, I don't believe every woman needs to go remove their implants or even their mercury fillings or whatever. But we do have to be a health detective and say, what has changed with me? And maybe it's not just the thing, just the blood sugar, just the hormones, it is the whole picture of you. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:20:09] Yeah. I really think of it as a domino effect. It's like multiple things that are coming together all at the same time. It’s the perfect storm as I mentioned before, and just to step back. So, 33 years of implants and I think it was you and Dr. Amie Hornaman that were talking in between you both. There were like, I don't know, 12 plus procedures. I had no idea. So, you had capsular contraction multiple times. And I guess I was hearing Dr. Ricky Brown talking about its this biofilm theory. So, the body is really trying to ensure, as frustrating as that would be, if you have breast implants, and I have a friend from college that she got it so bad, it deformed her breasts so much that she had to replace them because she would have one breast looked fairly normal and one that looked like--[crosstalk] 


Natalie Jill: [00:20:56] Exactly what happened to me. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:20:58] A softball underneath her skin. She couldn't wear anything that was tight because it was so obvious. During that entire process, did any plastic surgeon talk to you about reoccurrence? If you have one episode of capsular contraction, you're more likely to have others. Did anyone ever offer you the option of explant? Or was that something that you came to-- [crosstalk]


Natalie Jill: [00:21:18] Great question. They never offered explant. I was offered medications. They have all kinds of medications to basically suppress your body from wanting to. So, like, more stuff that would just make more issues, right? 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:21:31] Immunosuppressive stuff? 


Natalie Jill: [00:21:31] Yes, basically that I was told to take. It was an allergy, some type of allergy medicine I have to be on the rest of my life. I didn't do any of that. Nobody talked to me about that. In fact, my first experience with implants, I got them when I was 19 and I had the traditional silicone filled gel ones before they were taken off the market. And I got capsular contracture one so it's super hard and lifted and the other one couldn't even feel the implant. And when I went in to go swap it out to fix the capsule, they opened up the left one and the whole gel had spilled everywhere out of the capsule. It was completely ruptured. So, I remember waking up from that surgery to my mom standing over me. 


[00:22:07] I was probably 22 years old, and she was like “I should have told them to take those just dumb things out because here the surgeon had to go in and liposuction out my tissue of where all that silicone ruptured. I still to this day have silicone balls in my lymph nodes from that rupture so many years ago. Still, they couldn't get all of it. So no, but yeah. should they have come out then? A 1000% I did what in the world? Why was I not suggested that? But no. And so, I continue to do this, and to me, it's a red flag. You go [00:22:43] unintelligible] it's my third set, it's my fourth set, now it's my fifth. No one said anything. And even on this final chance, Ricky Brown was the first one that suggested removing them. He was the first one. No one else suggested it. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:22:52] Well, I just think, I can't imagine so you're very young and it's like we're in our 20s. We're invincible. You don't even think about like long term of anything but just imagining. And I think one of your surgeries, you had a bad infection. It was like a seven-hour surgery. 


Natalie Jill: [00:23:06] Yeah. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:23:07] And so as I was preparing for this conversation, viewing it as a clinician and then also viewing it as a woman that's the same age as you. I was like, “Oh my gosh. I mean that's so much.” But none of the physicians ever thought to say, “Hey Natalie, maybe it's time to throw in the towel or maybe it's time to give our body a rest.” Until you got to Ricky Brown who seems like an incredible, not just clinician but genuinely like really cares about his patients. And so, I know from following you on social media that heading up to having that explant surgery, I know there were a lot of emotions because you had breast implants for such a long period of time. Was it one of those situations where you were more worried and nervous beforehand and then afterwards it was cathartic. You just felt emotionally so much better after ex-plantation.


Natalie Jill: [00:23:57] I was in denial that they were actually a culprit. I just thought okay more of my reason for wanting to explant initially was this is stupid. How many times am I going to have this surgery? So, there was that. I'm very lucky to have a husband that's so supportive and caring. He went down a whole rabbit hole on breast implants as well. So, when I was originally going to take them out or replace them again, he was on board with it because he just didn't want me to be affected by. He's like, “I don't want you to be depressed because you've had them for so long and you don't-- I'll support whatever you want. But the more when Dr. Brown brought up the idea of explanting my husband and I both started reading down the rabbit hole of implants. 


[00:24:36] And now he's someone who believes in a lot of conspiracy theories and all types of things [Cynthia laughs] anyway, so he got on a whole tangent and he was pissed. He was like, “I think you should just take him out.” He's like, “I'll support what you want to do, but I just go back to what God gave you.” He was really supportive of that which helped me a lot because I knew that I was going to be left with nothing. I remembered being an A cup barely at 19 and I knew I had the liposuction when I had the rupture. So, I knew and Dr. Brown told me, you don't have any tissue. Like you have to be prepared to be fully flat. It's going to be a thing. So, I had to mentally prepare myself for that. 


[00:25:14] And the way I did it was I told myself if I hate it, I can always put them back. I can always put them back. But before I decided to take them out, I couldn't sleep with the idea of replace. I originally booked the surgery to replace them even though he told me to take them out and I couldn't sleep. I kept just waking myself up with “That's the wrong decision.” So, when I decided to take them out, I didn't believe it would help my health. I really just thought I was going to have a hard time mentally. I felt different literally the day after surgery like that instant. And I remember having a really hard time taking a shower and looking at what I looked like. So that was weird. 


[00:25:55] And I also felt way different. And I think me sharing on social real time helped me because so many people encouraged me and supported me and that made it a lot easier. I don't know how I would have done if I had not shared it or I hadn't had that validation, honestly, just doing right thing. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:26:14] Well, I think it's brave because it's inspiring others who maybe have that nagging thought in the back of their heads that I've had these in for so many years and they're so much a part of my persona and how my clothes look and how I feel. And one of my best friends from childhood just had hers explanted. She had had a rupture maybe 10 years ago and had them removed in November. And I think she called me like the next day and she was like, “That was the best decision I've ever made.” She's like, “I don't even know why I gave it a second thought.” She said, “I feel so much better.” And, much like what you had talked about. You started having a constellation of what she would describe as weird symptoms. 


[00:26:57] Joint pain, fatigue, brain fog, weight gain and she said everyone kept saying to her, “Oh, it's because you're middle aged.” This is just what to be expected. [laughs] So, I think that these conversations are so important because there's probably someone listening that may take action based on what they are going through. And so, you're more than a year out of your explant. And walk me through what it was like the first couple weeks, because I know you had mentioned it was a shock, you had to get reacquainted with your body. Has it impacted the way that you exercise, the things you're able to do? Because I would imagine if you've had your pectoralis muscles cut multiple times, does it make it harder to do certain exercises? 


Natalie Jill: [00:27:43] So, I had them under the muscle until the last set. The last set was over the muscle. So that had all been repaired, which was great. So that made it a little easier because I took it from over. But he did remove the capsule and I did a lift because I was a double D, like a double D. And I'm now like a negative A, [laughs] if there is such a thing as a negative [Cynthia laughs] A. So, I had a lot of skin. So, for me, first and foremost, like that, not only am I flat, like flat, flat. I have multiple scars underneath, like a lollipop scar. And they're big, they're obvious, it’s not pretty. I don't want to pretend like it is. It looks rough. If somebody has their own tissue, you would see that less. I don't have that. 


[00:28:21] So, mentally, I didn't like it. And then I also could not work out for six weeks because I had to let all that heal fine. So, I just walked and I did what I was allowed to do. Now my workouts are back to whatever I want to do. I don't feel anything. It's actually easier to work out. They're not in my way. It's easier to sleep. It's more comfortable. I don't miss that. The only time I miss it is some of my clothes. Sometimes I have an outfit that I love or a top that I love that just doesn't work anymore. It doesn't because it looks concave or looks funny. So, it's just learning how to dress different. But I feel so much better that it's outweighed that.


[00:29:02] And I've embraced my new body for that. So, I feel smaller, I feel more toned. I feel all of it. So, sometimes does it bother me? Yes. I'm not going to lie. I'm in a sport bra at a gym and I see other women with them. I think about it for a minute, but then I remember how good I feel. So, I don't want to lie that the mental part is not there, because it is, but I'd rather feel this way. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:29:27] Yeah. I think that, again, it goes back to this transparency, which I think is so admirable and helpful for so many women. And you did it again. I'm not sure when you had your blepharoplasty done, but same thing. You were very transparent and I love that about you, that you're putting yourself out there and sharing your experience. And I would say most of what I read people were super supportive. And then you get the occasional trolls or unhappy individuals that just vomit all. And it's not unique to just your account, but it's like any woman's account. They wouldn't do it to a man, but they'll do it to a female. 


[00:30:03] These choices that you've been making, have you felt a greater connection to your community in terms of sharing with them? And then, this genuine concept of full transparency because, really, that's what it is.


Natalie Jill: [00:30:18] So, I share literally everything. I don't hide anything. I just tell the truth. It's easier to remember things that way. That's number one. I'm not a marketer. I'm a truth teller. I just tell the truth now. I'm part of why I tell the truth is because it makes it easier. I'm just being myself. It's not hard to remember things. I'm just telling truth. Two, I don't want to lie to women. I want them to actually know what I'm walking through too and let them know that there's these choices for them. And I feel compelled to share and teach and focus on whatever I'm walking through and ensure that. I don't do it as-- I think some people say I'm going to be authentic or vulnerable share to try to market. That's not what's in my head.


[00:31:02] Now naturally, what happens is when I share about something, people have continued questions and I ended up building it into my programs or who knows what. That's just the natural evolution of it. But for me, I just like to share what I'm walking through. I am very honest about my age, which is 53, which I think you are too. And I'm very honest about not having all the answers. And I also am very honest about I'm not going down, just aging gracefully. That's just not my choice. So, I could have done my eyes and come back and said, “Wow, I found this new amazing eye cream and look at this. But that's not real or authentic, so I'm not going to do that.” So, I told the truth. I just shared and told the truth. 


[00:31:46] I didn't worry about what people would think of me. That's not the concern. I worried about that people wouldn't be interested in it. But they were very interested. Now what's happened? I did get some negative people during it, fine. But more importantly, it's the backhanded people that say nasty things now. So, for example, I shared the other day a podcast episode, and I just talked about, can we reverse aging? I was talking about mitochondria. So, “Can we reverse signs of aging?” And somebody commented, says the woman who has work done on her face, “What does that have to do with anything?” So, I get those things. But the alternative would have been for me not to say I was doing that. And that's not fair either. So, I haven't found some miracle elixir to not have saggy eyes. I had an eye bleph, which I think is amazing. So, I share.


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:32:34] No, again, it's that true authentic sharing and recognizing that 90% of the people out there appreciate that. And then, the trolls every once in a while, my team, I'm sure probably just like your team will get mean, nasty comments and I'm like, “Bless and release.” 


Natalie Jill: [00:32:53] Yeah.


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:32:54] It isn't even worth it to interact with people that clearly are incredibly unhappy because if they were happy with themselves, they would be like, that's awesome. So happy for you. There's a very nice person on social media who just had a facelift and she was very transparent and sharing a lot. And you know, I was messaging her because we are friends and she said to me, it's amazing how kind people have been because I'm choosing to share so openly. And I was like, “I think that's awesome.” And I wish more people, that would be their reaction.


[00:33:27] Again, note, move on if you have nothing nice to say, as our mothers taught us when we were school age children say nothing at all. I don't know why people choose to go low and most of us are going high. Now, in terms of looking at the future and how have things changed? How is your exercise? You mentioned the things that used to work are now working again. What does a typical week look like for you in terms of exercise, how you approach it? I'm sure you're still doing a lot of strength training and probably doing a lot of Zone 2 training. What's unique or different that you're doing right now? 


Natalie Jill: [00:34:06] Great question. So, number one is I'm very aware of keeping my body opt-- I call it age optimizing. I don't love the term biohacking, but I'm an age optimizer. I want to age and continue to age well. So, there's a lot of things that I do some are free and simple and some are things that I've added on. So, I'll run through that. But first and foremost, I teach just like you do, Cynthia, eating mostly unprocessed, natural real foods. And I am a fan of phytonutrients and I'm not going to ever be a strict carnivore or keto or anything like that because I like to personally have a lot of plants in my diet on top of proteins. 


[00:34:40] So, I am a big fan of how do I get in more fruits and vegetables, how do I get in more antioxidants, polyphenols. I want all of that, that's one. 2, I'm protein first, so I'm really worked on getting in enough protein. I think most women get way too little protein, me included many times if I just go off of hunger. So, I really work on how do I load in as much protein as I can because I want to prevent any more muscle loss and I want to be able to still grow muscle and I want to preserve my bone and we need strong muscles for that to happen. So, protein plants, big party. I totally avoid grains for the most part. I can't have gluten because I'm a celiac, but I don't want grains. 


[00:35:18] Other than Blue Moon, I go have sushi and I have some rice. I really don't have grains in my diet. I do eat potatoes, sweet potatoes, white potatoes. I love to do that because I do want carbs. But I don't have oatmeal or anything like that anymore. Dairy, very selective around. I do think dairy is very inflammatory. Ever since cleaning up my gut, I tolerate it a lot better. I don't have any issues, but I don't want it in my body. I don't think it's helping me. I do avoid sugar for the most part, artificial sweetener. So that's kind of like diet. As far as workout and movement, I walk almost every day like walking, movement, standing more than I sit, that's just a part of my life. I think most of us are not moving enough.


[00:35:55] My workouts are intense and focused and I'll explain what I mean, it doesn't mean I go every day. I go at least four days a week to do a workout and I focus on progression and intensity. So, how do I continually progress and challenge my muscles and what's intense for me? So, intensity is different for different people. It's what's intense for you. To give you an example, if I go try to do a pull up and some guy does a pull up and maybe you listening, it can't do any at all. But we all go work on our pull up. Maybe you are listening, working towards one or I'm working towards five or the guy is working towards 30 and faster. It's what's intense for you, what's challenging for you. So, I'm working always on progressive overload.


[00:36:39] And how do I go a little heavier? How do I go a little more intense? How do I continually progress and challenge myself? Because I want to create that muscle which is harder to build the older we get. So, important there. As far as my cardio, I don't do like targeted cardio anymore. I don't do long, drawn out cardio. I think it makes it hungrier. I think it wears down our bodies, really mine's more either enjoyment, like I'm hiking or walking, or I'm doing something the CAROL bike, where I'm going to get in REHIT training, get my heart rate up, bring it back down more like that. And then a big part of my life is detoxing and recovering and making sure. So, my house does look like a little bit of a nut job. I'm not going to lie. [Cynthia laughs] 


[00:37:17] I have all the things here. Our living room is literally like-- I've got the sauna, I've got a cold plunge, I've got the CAROL bike there. I've got red light that I start with every day. I am a definite whack a noodle when it comes to that stuff. I am very aware of it because I want my body detoxing the best that it can at all times. So, I wear blue blockers at night. I do all the things because even if it's all hocus pocus and doesn't really work, I believe it's working. So, it's going to work for me. [laughs] 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:37:45] Yeah, no. And I love how purposeful and intentional you are with what you're choosing to do. I think about the strength training piece, I sprained my wrist last November, and so I was doing dead hangs and my trainer, I hate them, but she always tells me the more you hate it, the more it means you need to do it. And so now that I've fully recovered from the sprain, which is ridiculous, it takes longer to heal at this stage of life. And so, she's got me doing dead hangs again and she'll time me and I'm like, “Oh, these are the worst.” She's like, “No, no, these are really good for you.” 


Natalie Jill: [00:38:18] But your grip strength.


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:38:19] Right and so that's the one thing that I noticed is I had my grip strength in my left hand was 65 PSI. So, that's really good for the stage of life we're in. because of my injury, my other side's 43. And so, she reminds me of that she was like, “I want you to be hanging,” so doing things that are challenging our bodies but not hurting us. And I love that you're so conscientious. If you saw my bedroom, I'm embarrassed to admit. I have a PEMF mat. I have my treadmill in the bedroom. My husband's like, “Can't we move these into. We have a home gym?” And I'm like, “Oh, but I love having them close,” because then it just makes things easier. But with that being said, I think so much of navigating, as you put it, age optimization is really finding things that we love and we enjoy. Are there things that you struggle with?


[00:39:02] For me, I admittedly like meditation is something that does not come easily for me. Are there things that you're actively working on that you feel like you need to continue working on because they're just not as intuitive or you just aren't as drawn to them as maybe other things that you're-- 


Natalie Jill: [00:39:18] Yeah. So, the main things for me and I have a feeling we maybe have a similar thing here is I have and I can see this on my DNA test, and I can feel it in my body. I definitely have issues with dopamine, serotonin, and cortisol. I can feel cortisol in my body a lot and my body wants to be in flight mode. Like, that's how I have been successful that I want to go. I don't have an off button sometimes. And I can feel it, and it's not healthy for our body. So, first and foremost, I've been really, really working on that. I've learned to allow myself to be that way for several hours a day. Like, that's my thing. But then I have to really work at shutting that off the other times. And it's not easy for me. I'm not going to lie. And so just, like you said, meditation I've tried all the different things. Right now, my current fascination is brain tap. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:40:03] You’re the second person today that brought it up, I was like, “I have one in my closet upstairs. I need to use it.” 


Natalie Jill: [00:40:08] I don't even have my own. I've been using it at my gym. They have one with one of those vibro-flow beds. So, it vibrates the bed. It's kind of cool. So, I've been really working on things like that. I've also been playing with some different supplements to start trying to shut that down for me, whether that's 5-HTP or just playing with to get the right thing. Because most things that work for mitochondrial health for most people, for me, they feel speed, where you shouldn't feel things, I can feel it. So, anytime I've ever tried anything to like really up level mitochondrial health, you're not supposed to feel it and I do. So, I really understand that dysregulation. So, for me, it is that stress hormone, cortisol. 


[00:40:46] And I’m working on doing that. So, meditation, finding the right supplements to shut that down, blocking blue light, that's a really big one that I overlooked for years. The second the sun is setting, I have those glasses on. I'm not messing around with that. I really want that not coming in. I want to not disrupt that. And then working on getting that natural sunlight first thing in the morning, just trying to regulate that. I do think that's my area for massive improvement this year that I'm working on. Because you have to have that awareness and it's part of that being a health detective and going, “Okay, this is my next level. How do I get that under control?” 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:41:21] Yeah, it's interesting. Have you ever done an adverse childhood events score?


Natalie Jill: [00:41:25] No. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:41:27] So, it's scoring as a child, things that you experienced. And I grew up with divorced parents, a lot of abuse. And so, for me, my score is high. And because it's high, I'm more susceptible to autoimmune conditions and I tend to run sympathetic dominant, which is what you're describing. Is it any surprise I ended up in cardiology and ER medicine because I'm an adrenaline junkie, [crosstalk] performed. And so, for me, it's a battle. When I get up in the morning, it's that connection to nature. We walk our dogs, I come home and exercise. I get on the PEMF mat. So, there's very specific things that I do most days to get me out of my head and what's good for me. And I see you're wearing an Oura too.


[00:42:09] For me, when I look at what was my stress score for the day or how long was I in a stressed mode? Trying to get this book done on time [Natalie laughs] because it's due on the 28th. My stress levels have been sky high, but I'm like, “I know this is temporary,” but I feel it. I feel edgy, I feel irritable. I can tell my cortisol is not properly regulated. So, I love that you have that awareness around all of that.


Natalie Jill: [00:42:32] And then being kinder to myself about it. So, my natural rhythm is I want to go to sleep at like 08:30 or 09:00 [Cynthia laughs] and I am wide awake at 3:00 or 04:00 AM that's my natural rhythm. However, I don't get up at 03:00 or 04:00 AM and I used to say, “Oh, I'm going to get up, I'm going to do whole morning routine.” Now when that happens, I’m just like, “Okay, not grabbing your phone, even if it takes me an hour to go back to sleep.” And then I usually will wake up a little groggier and I used to be mad at myself. Like, “Wow, I could have been more productive. I should have gotten up.” I don't do that now if it takes me until 7:30 to get myself going. 


[00:43:04] I just am kinder to myself with that. And I don't force the stuff. For there was a long time every morning it was like, “I'm going to do sauna, I'm going to do this.” I don't do that anymore. My one like bio-hacky thing in the morning would be my red light for sure. I do that every morning for 12 minutes. But I switched my sauna for instance tonight because that worked better with my wind down mode. I'm already feeling that and I'm trying to help myself wind down. So let me do that there instead of being in the sauna with my phone and answering emails and that's how I was doing it before. So, I've learned to work with what my body is needing in this stage. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:43:39] I think that's smart. And for people listening, there's solid research that raising your core temperature will induce sleep. And sometimes I'll take a hot bath, I mean only in the winter or I'll take a hot shower. I found that that has been very, very helpful. So, you switching that to the evening really makes a lot of sense. What's funny is anytime I try to bring my phone into my infrared sauna, my phone gets too hot.


Natalie Jill: [00:44:03] Overheats. It overheats. It can't be good for us. It's probably not good us. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:44:06] So, now I leave it outside and if I'm listening to a book, I'll just listen to the book. I'm like, this is my technology reminding me that I'm not supposed to be multitasking. 


Natalie Jill: [00:44:15] I've been listening to your podcast on my sauna the last few nights actually, yeah. That's how I found out about your DNA and that we had the same thing. [Cynthia laughs] 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:44:23] So is it any surprise? So, tell me what's new and on the horizon for you? Anything that's new that you're doing that you're interested in or curious about. I know you figured out that these mitochondrial support supplements, which I actually do okay with those, but I can appreciate why. It's probably giving you a little bit too much boost in your ATP, which is that kind of intrinsic energy of your cells.


Natalie Jill: [00:44:46] Initially, now I am playing with Mitopure right now, which seems to be okay for me. I had to go back to polyphenols and am I just to CoQ10? I had to go really, really basic there. Can I actually eat real pomegranate? Like what. [Cynthia laughs] So if that's someone, if you listen and it happens to be you. I mean that showed in my DNA that I don't have good mitochondrial function but I take that seriously. So, you go back to the step one. You don't have to do the fancy things. You can go step one. As far as new, I'm always on the horizon, researching and learning new things. 


[00:45:19] When I went through this whole reinvention two years ago and I got it together, I then a year ago redid all my programs. So, I scrapped literally everything I’d done for 17 years and I redid my total body thrive to match this current information because I don't want to teach things that I'm no longer believing. So, now when I teach fat loss to midlife women. I do take them through decision and mindset and nutrition, but we also go deep into detective work because we can't skip that. And it's not just, it's everyone should be on hormones. Yeah, I mean I do. I'm a huge fan of HRT. But that's not the only answer. We need to look at your thyroid. We need to look at your gut. There's a lot of variables there.


[00:45:59] So, I've been in this progression for the last year of really redoing everything to match that. I've really up leveled my podcast. It's midlife conversations. And all I do is deep dive these topics. That's what I will continue to do right now. And that's where I've explored where I will be in a year or two or three. I don't know, because it depends on what I'm walking through, [laughs] and that's how I tend to react. I have a feeling mitochondrial stuff will probably be a big topic because I'm figuring that out right now. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:46:25] Do you know what type of human design theory-- Are you familiar with human design theory? 


Natalie Jill: [00:46:29] No. Somebody else just asked me that too but, no I don't. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:46:31] I'm wondering if you're, “I'm a manifesting generator.”


Natalie Jill: [00:46:34] Oh, no, I do know. I am a manifesting generator. Yes.


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:46:36] I was going to say you sound like a manifesting generator, which is what I say. Like, what do I get interested in is usually the direction my business goes in. And so, your gut never leads you in the wrong direction, is what I typically will say. 


Natalie Jill: [00:46:49] No, so whatever I'm learning. This is also an ADHD thing for me. I own that. I have that and have my whole life and I think of it as a blessing. But when I was little in school, I remember getting in trouble because I wouldn't focus on what we're supposed to focus on. I would focus on what I wanted to focus on. And I feel in my adult life, it's like one big rebellion time. And I'm like, “No, I'm going to focus on what I'm interested in, period.” And I go so much deeper when I'm interested. And that's why I'm able to really master, understand, and then simplify it for other women because I will get obsessive learning and then simplifying it. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:47:22] Yeah, I mean, I love what you're doing. And like I said, one of the things I really value about you as a friend and fellow entrepreneur is your transparency and sharing so much and serving as an incredible resource for women. Please let my listeners know how to connect with you, how to find your amazing podcast, how to follow you on social media.


Natalie Jill: [00:47:41] Midlife Conversations is my podcast. My website's nataliejill.com and then social media is @nataliejillfit, everywhere.


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:47:48] Awesome. Thanks again, my friend. 


Natalie Jill: [00:47:50] Thanks, Cynthia. 


Cynthia Thurlow: [00:47:53] If you love this podcast episode, please leave a rating and review. Subscribe and tell a friend. 



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